The bell rings to signal the end of the day, and the students in my last hour class frantically escape their academic chains for the day. I sit at my computer and try to do some work, until my visitor arrives.
And arrive he does, in grand style: the door swings furiously open, and the student furiously takes a seat in the front row of my classroom.
He is not actually my student: he’s a freshman, so I have only interacted with him during my lunch supervision. He is, however, a student of the math teacher I share the supervision with, Mrs. C, and it was for her that he was now in my room.
You see, this student – who we’ll call Jay for the purposes of anonymity – is what might be considered a “problem student” – he has anger issues and often lashes out at both students and faculty. Earlier this week, he had one of his episodes, and Mrs. C and our principal were in his line of fire. Jay has served his fair share of detentions with Mrs. C, and they ultimately haven’t done any good, from what Mrs. C has told me in our confiding about our teaching (Mrs. C is a first-year as well, at least in full-time public school teaching).
So I, ever the problem-solver, suggested to Mrs. C that Jay serve a detention for his disrespectful behavior with me instead of with her, mostly to send the message that the detention wasn’t a vindictive act.
And very promptly after Jay rushed into my classroom, Mrs. C was behind. We both tried to talk to Jay to make sure he understood why he was serving the detention, but he shut down on us and refused to talk. Eventually, Mrs. C left Jay and I to the detention, thinking that the hard exterior that had been hastily erected was not going to be taken down anytime soon.
But when I have a problem that needs my attention, I am persistent (chalk up to years of technical support work prior to teaching). So I did the only thing I could do: I talked. And talked. And talked.
I already know at this point that Jay is a good kid at heart. I’ve seen him during lunch, and we’ve interacted in that environment enough that we’ve butted heads a few times – nothing serious, but enough that he’s had to apologize to me (which he did of his own accord, as far as I can tell). I think I’m a good enough judge of character to make that assessment.
I couldn’t even tell you everything I said. I don’t know how long I talked, either, but after a while, Jay went from his head in his arms on the desk to his head resting on his arms to an upright sitting position and eye contact…and I knew that he was finally listening.
And once we got going, we covered the basics: he knew the way he acted was wrong; he knew what to do when he makes mistakes (“[deep sigh] Apologize…”); he knew that it was sometimes hard to act right but that he needed to try. I told him that if this were a test, it would be the easiest test he’d ever take, but of course life is harder than that.
So we had it, the understanding that he needed to change so that relationships and the overall atmosphere would improve and – this was my own contribution – so that he would simply become a better person. (Gotta love intrinsic motivators!) I also reminded him that our relationship would expand next year into the traditional student-teacher relationship, and I think he understood that I wanted him to have good interactions with all of his teachers. My message seemed to have gotten through to him.
Finally, after I felt that we had said enough together, I told J, “Now, I think we need to walk down to Mrs. C’s room.” There was resistance, but Jay acquiesced and gave what both Mrs. C and I thought was a sincere apology: he looked Mrs. C right in the eye and said that his behavior was disrespectful and that he needed to make a change. We all talked for a few minutes, and after J left, Mrs. C turned to me and said with a somewhat impressed expression, “I don’t know what you said to him, but that’s a good sign.”
And I replied, “I’m not magic; he just needed to hear from someone else.”
Time, of course, will tell if J’s behavior improves, but I’m hopeful. I’m also encouraged by the fact that I was able to take control of the situation and help move it in a positive direction somewhat, even though it may have been in large part due to the fact that he doesn’t have to face me in the classroom tomorrow. It makes me wonder if maybe I need some distance to see what I can do for the students in my own classes – maybe I too need some interventions from outside sources. We’re a learning community, after all, and sometimes other people have more sway than I do with some students.
I guess there is hope for me yet.
April 4, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Mr. B,
Once again I turn to your blog and consider making it required reading for my college students. Right now I am also teaching a course in low-incidence disabilities with 19 certfied teachers that are given up their Monday nights (bless them) to add special education endorsement or certification to their repertoires. Tonight we will take a look at “The Incredible 5 Point Scale”, a visual program to help student behavior.
I would like my students to take at look at your blog and provide some comments from “outside sources”. As much as we talk and plan for interventions – it often simply boils down to being willing to take a risk and extend a hand. Thanks for being willing to do both.
Professor Pete Post
April 4, 2010 at 4:59 pm
I believe teens often do listen more to adults who don’t have direct authority over them. It’s easier to confide in someone about the problems of your growing independence, or to accept their advice, if the person doesn’t have the power to shut down your efforts to live your own life.
April 6, 2010 at 10:41 am
Mr. B,
I am a student of Professor Post’s and throughout my experience as an educator I have experienced similar situations with students. I have had student situations where I was like Mrs. C and that no matter what I did to defuse or approach a student the situation would remain the same or escalate. But, I have had many more situations with students where I was like Mr. B, being able to defuse a situation and/or redirect a student showing them what the problem situation was and then working together finding solutions to correct and prevent this type of situation from occurring again. Overall, I believe a person’s personality and how they handle situations are key elements to creating positive/stress free atmospheres. Another helpful tool that we were introduced to recently in class is “The incredible 5 point scale”; I think this could be a very positive discrete system that any educator/individual could use to defuse any situation. This system uses visual cues verses being verbal with a student. By being non-verbal this creates a less invasive/threatening atmosphere. Ultimately, a teacher needs to find a system that works for both the teacher and the student in order to have a successful school year.
April 6, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Mr. B,
What a lucky student Jay is for having a persistent teacher to reach out to him! I think many times students will listen when you show them you care. High schoolers are faced with many new challenges: tougher classes, wanting more independence, hormones, trying to fit in, just to name a few. As teachers (and parents) we need to remember that students are not “soldiers” to be ordered around. They are each unique in their own way, each with different personalities. Many students may be dealing with a difficult home life. Many may be challenged by peer preasure. Classes may be more difficult and the student is just trying to keep his head above water. Whatever the situation, we need to reach out to these students and not give up on them. I found the article Strategies for Dealing with Defiant, Rude, and Oppositional Students from the website: http://www.behavioradvisor.com full of ideas for dealing with students who like to “push our buttons”. Students like to be given choices, which lets them have some “power” in their life. We need to keep believing in their ability to change for the better and not give up on these children. We want these kids to succeed in life!
April 6, 2010 at 4:07 pm
This is a very persuasive article on the power of having a different person that a student or child can talk to other than their teacher, parent, or coach. Sometimes, students needs to hear from someone with a different perspective that may have a different experience that they can relate to the student. As the previous articles stated, students need someone to just listen to them and talk with them instead of at them. High school students have many things going on as previously mentioned including possibly starting a relationship with the opposite sex. This can be a very confusing time for high students and some of them need extra help to get them through this difficult time. I find that it not only makes the student to feel better but I feel good when I have helped a young adult. All it takes sometimes is a little extra time, understanding, and be a good listener.
April 6, 2010 at 5:50 pm
I love hearing success stories of teachers helping students with behavior issues! I feel that I can relate to this type of situation discussed in the above article. Over the years, I have gained a lot of respect from many of my students. I feel that it is important to make a conncection with my students. The connection can be in regard to school subjects, extra curricular activities, family or just everyday situations. This allows me to relate to them in their time of need. I find great satisfaction when a child confides in me. I strongly believe that you need to have a friendship (to an extent) with your students. If you are a teacher always yelling or drilling the students, I feel that more problems will arise. I think that having another perspective from a staff member can only benifit the student. This is why I see the benifit of working closely with the schools social worker and counselor. Behaviors may be exhibited to gain attention and it is important to get to the root of the problem.
April 6, 2010 at 5:53 pm
I completely agree with this article! When I was working at a Junior High School, I was able to solve behavioral problems for other teachers simply because they knew that I was a football and wrestling coach at the high school that they would eventually attend. I would let the students know that in the future, that type of behavior would not fly and that it would be wise of them to correct it before it hurt any chances of them learning or participating in extra curricular activities. I have not had any trouble with these students since. I hope it is because they actually listened to my advice, but I feel that it partly has to do with that fact that they know I am a part of the community and will be in their lives for longer than the two years that they are in Junior High.
April 7, 2010 at 10:26 am
Your blog was way too familiar for me. I teach in my district’s alternative program and this is the type of behavior I work with on a day to day basis. I have learned so much when it comes to getting outside help. These students respect me and we have a great relationship, however sometimes they just need someone other than me talking. I am with them every day all day and having someone else reinforce topics that you have discussed can be an awesome approach. The student often sees it as a type of reward, getting to interact with another person that they don’t have a chance to see every day. A great website to refer to is http://www.canteach.ca/elementary/fnations51.html This website gives some suggestions on how to work with angry students. There are reasons that they are angry towards you and others in the school that probably don’t start at school. Letting them know that you care and that you are there to help and support them is the most important thing you can do for them.
April 7, 2010 at 11:20 pm
Kids need to be heard. They are people with lives and some carry the burden of a bigger life than they can handle every day to school. Listen to them and get to know them. It will go a long way to your credibility when you can speak to them with as genuine an understanding of who they are as possible. The article, “Learning to Forgive,” from the Catholic Education website, also points out that training teachers in “empirically proven anger reduction techniques” is a very good investment for any school district. With this training teachers can offer students options for dealing with their anger in ways that are not risky to others. Through it all, it is important to let the students know that you care about them and to remember that you are not alone. Other staff members, like Mr. B., are there to help.
April 9, 2010 at 6:23 pm
I think it is wonderful that you and a colleague were able to combine forces to hopefully start making some headway on this young man’s problems. During my years of teaching I have found it helpful to reach out to others for suggestions or even just to be sounding boards to help me work through problems with students. Your story has an optimistic ending and I would like to add to that by suggesting that this student may need to visit a counselor or social worker. His anger issues could be connected to anything from a difficult homelife to something medical. Don’t let this matter end with your inspiring talk. The work may just be beginning.
April 10, 2010 at 11:02 am
I wish your blog had been more specific about the child’s misbehavior. I think some novice teachers are unsure about how to handle discipline issues. When does the frequency of a student’s misbehavior or the type of student’s misbehavior warrant consulting a colleague or an administrator? I was “punished” when I brought a severe discipline issue to the attention of my administrators. The student was removed from my class, but I was coerced into instructing the pupil individually during one of my free periods. Therefore, I think it is wonderful that you were willing to intercede on behalf of your friend. Sometimes it is merely a matter of personalities clashing that prevent a student from implementing change in his or her attitude and behavior. Opening a dialogue with a student is a difficult task for many teachers, regardless of their educational experience. I would like to know some of the items that you discussed with Jay. So far, “talking at” students has proven ineffective with my most trying pupils.
April 10, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Hi Mr. B! I loved this article because sometimes with students who tend to be a problem they develop a feeling of “being picked on”. I feel that hearing a different voice other than the one that usually
“yells at you” can be very beneficial. Those students often look up to other teachers because they feel there may not be a bias. They are looking for a fresh start at times. I will try this tactic in the future. Thanks!
April 10, 2010 at 10:22 pm
Laura, the reason specific behaviors were not addressed is mostly for the purposes of privacy, and I actually didn’t really discuss anything other than Jay’s general pattern of behavior – but I understand your concern. I can tell you, however, that this is in fact a pattern of misbehavior for this student, and the disrespect was not in fact due solely to personality clashes (although I do wonder if he tends to lash out more with women than with men, for whatever reason). The reason I suggested this course of action was in fact to show that I felt Jay’s behavior was unacceptable and that it needed to be communicated in a way that would avoid any appearance of personality clashes and such. I actually get along well with Jay in the short time I see him each day, well enough that (as I noted above) he came on his own to apologize to me. That tells me that we must have some small amount of rapport, and here, it seems to have been the right combination. I will not claim, certainly, that this approach would work with all students.
April 11, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Sometimes teachers take things for granted, I see it all the time. Teachers often take these students behaviors as signs of being a class clown and acting out, teachers do what they can to make it through the day, week, month, or even the end of the year. I have worked in a district and a classroom with multiple students who were disruptive with behaviors and have gained insight from past teachers but was unsuccessful. I became persistent in working with them academically and behaviorally. It takes a strong teacher to work with students and take time and be persistent to help them understand. Students see their teachers on a daily basis and often look at us as the enemy, I think by this student hearing it from a familiar but unfamiliar to the classroom voice it helped him to see that his teacher wasn’t “out to get him.” This blog has really helped me and I hope I can continue to be persistant and help me students and collegues students if need be. I look forward to more blogs!
April 11, 2010 at 4:33 pm
I am a student of Professor Post’s so I enjoy reading these blogs that give me feedback into teaching and different perspectives from many teachers.
I have taught preschool and elementary. I am now in a special education class and I could relate to this article regarding little Johnny in my class. Sometimes it helps to have other teachers come in with the tension explodes. We have a great team of four teachers and four paraprofessionals so we all tend to know when to jump out and in which helps us not to get too stressed out and aids in helping Johnny regroup. Thanks for the wonderful article Mr. B.
April 11, 2010 at 5:21 pm
The one thing I have realized with student behavior issues over my years as a teacher is that there surely is not a one size fits all solution. I think it was a great idea to try to switch up some of the routine of dealing with J that seems to have not been working. It is obvious that there are some teachers that students identify with better for whatever reason and we all seem to have those that listen to us and those who we struggle with. I think the teamwork approach to this solution is a great idea and shows how good collaboration between colleagues can be one of the most important tools we have in the classroom. It is often time just being humble enough to know that you may need a little help with a particular students and usually works out that at some point they will also need help. I came across a source entitled “Addressing Barriers to Learning” that does an excellent job of explaining some steps to dealing with difficulties the classroom. This seems to be a well written and formal document that reads somewhat easily and is very supportive of the informal steps you took to deal with J in the classroom. I think you are doing a great job on here expressing some of your frustrations and successes, and putting these thoughts out there to allow other teachers to know they are not alone
Tom O.
April 11, 2010 at 11:28 pm
I totally agree with your tactics on how to handle the situation with this student. I believe in finding the good in every student and believe there is always some reason why a student acted in a certain way. Some of their background stories are so sad that you cannot help but want to reach out and help them. I am glad you gave that student the extra attention he probably craved and disiplined him in a way that was resonable. I only wish to encounter more people like you as I begin my journey as an educator.
April 12, 2010 at 5:16 pm
Sometimes you cannot see the forest through the trees. This seems to be a perfect example of this. Often it can be difficult to be objective when you are a part of the situation. A fresh pair of eyes may lend a new perspective and new ideas. I, as a new teacher, always appreciate someone else’s ideas when dealing with a difficult situation and/or student. I do not always take their advice, but sometimes I do. There are also times when I have been the one to offer advise to teachers. Even veteran teachers do not have all the answers all the time. Teaching is not about having all the answers, but about trying different solutions. I know in my career as an educator there will be many, many times that I need assistance. I just hope someone will be there to help.
May 17, 2010 at 8:38 pm
Mr. B,
I thoroughly enjoyed this entry! As a pre-service teacher and recently past teen, I strongly believe that teens can really open up when an adult does not have the direct authority. There are often too many struggles of power with adults in the teen years at home that may force the student to react negatively to teachers. I also believe that extending a hand to these students outside the classroom may be vital to changing some behavior that needs a change. This student clearly engaged in some behavior that was not acceptable because of reasons that you found out because of the approachable atmosphere you created for him.
I do have some questions for you about having this good balance of leadership in the classroom as well as the approachable, friendly teacher that students can approach about anything. How do you balance this? I’ve seen some teachers put on too much of an “act” and consequently lose students’ interest in material. Whereas I have also seen teachers be too friendly/approachable and therefore have no control over their class. I am much like you as you point out that you aided in this situation by talking a lot of the issues out, but how would you suggest incorporating this attitude in the classroom?
May 18, 2010 at 7:28 am
Excellent question, Kyle, but I don’t think I can give you an easy answer. I try not to give off any sort of “friend” vibe (and have on occasion told students, “I’m not your friend; I’m your teacher”), but I try instead to respect each student and let them know that I care about them individually while still having responsibilities to the class as a whole. Some of them get that, and some of them still don’t. You have to assert your authority to keep the classroom under control, but you can’t become so authoritarian that students think you’re more concerned with policing their behavior than in helping them become better students and people.